Finance Committee Budget Hearing Tue, May 6, 2025 · Finance Committee Budget Hearing https://santafeminutes.space/meeting/759 == Executive Summary == The Finance Committee Budget Hearing focused on finalizing the budget resolution and addressing proposed amendments. Key discussions included reallocating $525,000 from a historical "Green Bank" fund to the Parks Department for maintenance and formally allocating $600,000 for publicly financed elections. Concerns were raised about the accuracy of the budget book's narrative, particularly regarding contingency funds in the Mayor's Office, with a consensus that the budget book, while not a legal document, should accurately reflect the budget's intentions for public transparency. The committee decided to postpone the final budget vote on the resolution until their next regularly scheduled meeting on Monday, May 12th, to allow city staff to complete the drafting and review of the proposed amendments. This postponement was unanimously approved. The meeting also featured extensive expressions of gratitude to city staff and committee members for their hard work and dedication throughout the budget process, acknowledging the complexity and time-consuming nature of the task. == Key Decisions == - The agenda for the meeting was approved by a unanimous vote. - The final budget vote on the resolution was postponed until the Finance Committee's regularly scheduled meeting on Monday, May 12th, to allow staff to complete drafting and review of proposed amendments. This motion passed unanimously. - It was agreed to change the budget narrative for $60,000 (Midtown property) and $48,500 (strategic plan) in the City Manager's office budget to reflect a total of $108,500 for "contingency work" or "contracts in the City Manager's office" in the final adopted budget. - A request was made to delete language about $500,000 for a "green bank" and add language reflecting this money's allocation to the Parks Department in the final budget narrative. - The committee decided against a formal vote on changes to the budget book's narrative, as it is not a legal document and such a vote could create confusion about its legal standing. == Motions & Votes == - Motion to approve the agenda — Passed unanimously. - Motion to postpone the final budget vote and resolution to the May 12th Finance Committee meeting — Passed (Councilor Cassid: Yes, Councilor Lindell: Yes, Councilor Faulkner: Yes, Councilor Lee Garcia: Yes, Chair Romero: Yes). == Public Comment == The Mayor expressed gratitude for the committee's thorough questioning and dialogue during the budget hearings, highlighting its value for public education. Councilor Cassett supported reallocating "Green Bank" funds to parks, seeing it as a better use of money, and reiterated concerns about the budget book's narrative accuracy. Councilor Lee Garcia inquired about the allocation of plastic bag tax revenue, specifically whether it funds park beautification or environmental services. Councilors also expressed deep appreciation for the hard work and dedication of the budget team and city staff, particularly Anita Medina, and acknowledged the mentorship and contributions of outgoing committee members. == Topics == - Budget Amendment Delays - Park Maintenance Funding - Publicly Financed Elections - Budget Process Improvements - Budget Narrative Accuracy - Staff Appreciation - Finance Committee Leadership - Personnel Listings Management - Meeting Logistics == Full Transcript == It's time. Are we ready to go live? Madam Chair, Councilor Romero, we are live. Thank you. Just pulling up my agenda. Sorry, my iPad decided to update during the power outage. So, now it's here, it comes, it's coming back. Okay. So, at 10:09, I am calling us to order, the Finance Committee for our ninth day, our ninth and final day in this run. If we could get a roll call, please. Certainly, Madam Chair. Councilor Cassett, here. Councilor Lindell, Councilor Faulkner, here. Councilor Lee Garcia, here. Chair Marroworth, I am here. Chair, you have a quorum. Okay. So, what we have last night at the Public Works Public Utilities Committee, we had the resolution that is in your packet introduced, and it is the formal vehicle by which the budget is adopted. And it is what we need to vote on in order to have a Finance Committee recommendation and approval for the budget and the work that we have been doing. We do have an amendment to it based on what we have learned in the last eight days, and I would like to have the Mayor speak to that amendment. Thank you. First, as you wrap up this meeting, which is officially the last meeting of the Finance Committee operating or functioning as the budget oversight group, I want to thank you. A really phenomenal group of meetings, and I hope anybody who has been able to watch and listen has taken notes and been able to benefit from the questions and the dialogue that you stimulated with all the department heads. It was really instructive and really wide-ranging, and I think anybody who tuned in and listened, who's not on the committee, benefited enormously from the education about all the work that's going on in the city and just how many different initiatives this government undertakes on behalf of the people of Santa Fe. It's pretty remarkable. And the talent of the people who appeared in front of you to answer questions and bring support to the city really, I think, makes the case that we, as a government, in its toto, in its sum, all of us are pitching in to do a very, very fine job. There are areas for improvement, and I'll get to that in one minute, but overall, I just was completely impressed by your digging deep into the processes and programs and policies, and at the same time, how well-prepared the folks were who came to talk about the issues. One thing that the Chair just mentioned, Mayor, if I can interrupt, I'm so sorry. It's been brought to my attention that we didn't approve the agenda before you go. Well, in that case, I will stop talking. Yes. So, sorry. I'm glad. But yeah, so if there aren't changes to the agenda, correct? Madam Chair, no. No changes from staff. All right. Motion to approve. Second. So, we have a motion, a second to approve the agenda. We have nobody on Zoom. All those in favor? Aye. Anybody opposed? That motion passes. Very sorry to interrupt the flow. Mayor, that's all right. I was at a nice inflection point. So, I think one of the benefits of the hearings is the opportunity to learn things and to profit by the questions raised from you all and the answers provided by the department heads. Councilor Cassett, in one of the hearings, identified the money that had been set aside historically for the so-called Green Bank. Actually, I think that was the early name when we thought we were going to establish a Green Bank at the city level, and then the state created a statewide version of it, and that money was applied to do things like Solarize Santa Fe and other sustainability ventures. But Councilor Cassett quite accurately flagged it and said, "How is that being used? What's its future?" And I said at that time it was under review. Councilor Cassett said, "Good. When will we learn about the review?" Thinking we were going to be like months and months into it, and I said, "Couple days," because we'd already heard from the Parks folks, Melissa, and from Regina, Melissa McDonald and Director Wheeler, that they really could use an infusion of funds to do a better job with the maintenance and upkeep of the parks, and that there were several different ways to go about it. One solution that was offered was to simply try to hire more workers. Another was to outsource some more of the median work to contractors and thereby free up our own employees to get off of the medians where, as was noted, we're only using, we're not, it's all hand work. There's no herbicide or chemical work. And Director McDonald was suggesting that with an infusion of money, she could either add more staff or redeploy staff to upgrade the quality of the park maintenance. With that in mind, I asked our team in the City Attorney's Office to draft an amendment that would sweep up what's really about $525,000 and change from that line item that had previously been identified as the Green Bank and bring it to this committee as an amendment that would then reallocate those dollars to Director McDonald and her approach for improved park maintenance and upkeep, whether through the medians or through the park directly. That work was underway to produce that amendment when, as they say in Latin, "mirabile dictu," which means "strange to say," we were struck by a lightning bolt last night, and staff's work upstairs to draft and do the work to reallocate the dollars and do the actual accounting that Andy Hopkins has to do was brought to a standstill. Otherwise, you would have that in front of you at this moment. But because Andy had to go back home and hope that his internet was working and attempt to work through the storm, we're a little bit late in producing that amendment. At the same time, a second item was identified in the course of your queries to staff regarding public financing and the Clerk's Office for the upcoming election. And there was identified $600,000 that had been set aside for that function, but it hadn't actually been allocated into the budget. So, the amendment that we were attempting to get done last night and that got interrupted by the act of God is an amendment that also would take that $600,000 that was set aside and make it part of the budget in a formal way so that there's no ambiguity about its availability to pay for publicly financed elections in the upcoming cycle. Those two pieces of work, as I said, got interrupted, otherwise you'd have it in front of you right now. I apologize for being late, but it is work in progress right now. And it does, I think, reflect some of the things you all brought to the surface in the course of the budget hearings, and I'm grateful that you were able to bring that out, and now we'll bring the amendment when they're done, and you'll be able to take a look at it and make your own assessment. So that's the state of play. Yeah. And I think there are two paths we can take. And I think, given that we've been here for eight days, I know the path you would all prefer. So, the amendment, unfortunately, is still being drafted, still has to be reviewed by our budget people, the City Attorney's Office, and is probably a couple hours, we're told, from being completed. Recognizing that you all probably would like to conclude these hearings and be on your way, I would propose that we postpone the final budget vote on this, the of this committee, on this resolution until Monday at our regularly scheduled meeting. And that way also, we don't have to have our team rushing and to get this amendment. I want them to do it right. And so, I'm proposing that we put on the agenda the final committee vote, Finance Committee vote of the budget resolution for Monday night when the amendment will be ready and we can incorporate it. Then, unless you all want to stick around for a couple of, we can recess for a couple of hours until the amendment is done and come back and take a final vote. But I think at this point, hearing from you all, I think Councilor Cassett has perhaps another concern which she'd like to voice. You all may have other questions. This is, you know, a kind of a last opportunity for, you know, I guess other questions and concerns, and then of course, we'll, when we vote, there'll be an opportunity for statements and things like that. So, I'll stop talking and turn it over to the committee. Councilor Cassett, you're raising your hand. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I would agree that moving to the Finance Committee is definitely my preference. Is there, we met today for a reason to pass this thing. So, is there any reason that there is a timing issue? Are, is our budget staff okay if we don't pass this? I understand the governing body doesn't pass it until Wednesday anyway. So, is there any concern in that regard? I am not aware of any. Okay. Seeing shaking heads of no's. I mean, we do, as the Finance Committee, need to vote on the resolution. Just that's part of our procedure. So, but because we do have a Finance Committee meeting Monday night, we can, and we haven't had to notice that meeting yet, it's easy to put this resolution on that agenda. So, we do, we have this nice unplanned safety valve for the act of God that happened last night that derailed otherwise best efforts to get this all wrapped up today. Okay. Well, that's definitely my preference in that regard. I do have a couple questions about the amendment. I love the idea of taking the Green Bank dollars, putting it towards the parks. Again, you know, this, it's kind of sad. Just, I think it's a better use of that money. However, it's in Environmental Services as part of Public Utilities. So, can we use those dollars? Is that, is an enterprise fund, and I believe those dollars, when I'm looking at the Public Utilities budget, when it does the summary by funds, it doesn't look like there's anything from the general fund, but is, you know, is it the, is it the right color of money that we can move it? We do have Alexis Lero, the Assistant Finance Director, at the podium. Welcome. Good morning. Thank you, Madam Chair, Councilor Cassett. That money was one-time money we transferred into Public Utilities. So now, effectively, what we're doing is we're just, it wasn't fully used. So, we're moving it somewhere else. So, we're recoloring. It's one-time money. Okay. So, it's not part of, it won't be part of, which is why the idea of using it for contracts as opposed to putting another park through is a better option there. Okay, great. Glad to hear that. That's exciting. And I, I definitely agree with this change. I think that that is, we've heard from the community and from us and from everybody that that really investing in those parks is important. So, thank you. And then my, my other question has to do with the issue I brought up around the narrative in the budget book around the dollars in the, in the Mayor's Office that, you know, it had, it had been segmented out into things, and through the conversation, it was like, these act, these things are actually not what these dollars would potentially be used for. It's the contingency funds for different projects and city initiatives throughout the year. I, I still have an issue that the budget book reflects it differently, especially because it kind of indicates one that there's more money going to Midtown that may not otherwise go there, as well as that, you know, the city's about to take on a strategic planning effort, which we may, we may not, but that it's funded. So, I don't know how we address that and making sure that what those dollars are going to be utilized for, why they're there, is accurately reflected. I understand that we vote on the budget and not necessarily the narrative, but the narrative also is utilized to understand the money. So, what do we do there? And if I can just really quickly before I turn it over to the City Manager. So, again, just to be clear, we are not voting to approve this budget book. We, the Finance Committee, and then the governing body will vote on the resolution that is in your packets. And I guess one of my questions would be, how is that money reflected in that resolution? I think it's probably under a contract line item, which in the contract line item isn't specified to particular purposes. And I think as our conversation, the Mayor wasn't here the day that this issue came up, and I sadly forgot to brief him about that. So, sorry about that. I think City Manager Scott, you had suggested that having some contract available money is actually a good thing because you really don't always know what kinds of things the Mayor will have to deal with, and having some ability to have some funds to do that is not a bad thing. So, I just, I guess, want to take us back to that conversation, also fill in a little more for the Mayor who was not here that day. And again, sorry, Mayor, didn't flag that I forgot. So, City Manager Scott, maybe you can take it from there. City Manager: Madam Chair, Councilors, that's exactly right. The budget book itself doesn't call out the detail on anybody's contracts, but when we went through this document that we provided the City Council, that listed the descriptor of every contract in the entire budget in the City Manager's office, there were still a few contracts that had been labeled in the past: training, study, and strategic plan. And that didn't provide much detail. And the day that we talked about this, I suggested that it's probably appropriate, not throughout an entire city budget, but in a City Manager's office, to have some contingency for issues that will arise during the course of a year. And I suggested we re-label those. Actually, one of them is training. We're not re-labeling that. But the other two, which came to $108,500, that we re-label that just as contingency going forward. I can cover that in the presentation that I do, the summary presentation that I do the day that we present the budget to the governing body, and I'm happy to do that or to provide it in writing that we've made that change. But I don't think that anybody's budget adoption is going to go into the level of detail of titling each of the 400 contracts that are in the budget. Yeah, and I would agree, and actually that's why my concern is what the budget book says because, you know, the public's not watching. If they are interested, this is publicly posted for them. This is what they'll go to for the narrative because they're not going to go through all these contracts because who wants to do that? So, I think that's my bigger concern is not a fear that it's not going to be utilized appropriately, but rather that the way that it is communicated and reflected to the public as to what these dollars are. And I don't think it would have been an issue if it hadn't been called out in the budget book, like if it was just like, hey, we have this much for contracts, and it hadn't said anything. But because it's called out in the budget book, all of a sudden it's a, you know, it's a, oh, we're doing a strategic plan this year or, you know, whatever the case may be. So, that is my concern. I don't, and I am not sure how to fix it. I don't know if we're able to fix whatever the final electronic version of the budget book is because again, it really is just about what is the narrative that would be understood if somebody were to take a look at this and say, "Hey, what's going on with this budget?" City Manager: We can definitely fix it in the final adopted budget plan. Definitely no problem with that. Well, that would solve my biggest concern there. So, thank you. Okay. And do we need to do anything formal to do that, or is just directing you all to take care of that sufficient, or do we need to? City Manager: It's sufficient for me. We will make that change. Okay. And will that, can that be made by the time it appears at the governing body on the 14th? City Manager: I don't know that they print the final adopted budget until after it's adopted. So, I don't. Okay. I'll put it in my report. You'll be able to see that. Okay. And so, and so, and just again, to make sure. So, right now it says the City of Santa Fe Proposed FY25-26 Budget, but what you're suggesting is that there'll be a final FY25-26 Budget. There was last year. I'm sure they'll do the same thing. All right. We have Director Lero coming back to the podium. I just, I think it's important to confirm if that's the proper understanding. And yes, Director Oster. Director Oster: Yeah. I want to make sure we're all on the same page about which page of the budget book we're talking about, and I'm just hoping that we could confirm Councilor Cassid, which page that language is on. So, we'll do that, and I'll have Director Lero answer the question about there'll be a final one of these. Director Lero: Madam Chair, that's correct. What you're looking at right now is what we refer to as a proposed budget book. After it's approved by the governing body, then it becomes the final. Okay. Right. So, we can make that change if it makes everyone more comfortable. Terrific. So, then let's go. Councilor Cassid, if you can flag where the page and the language that's concerning you. Are you okay, or do you need to take that? Be right back. Santa Fe Public Schools is calling me. So, I'm going to make sure my kids are okay, but it's the bottom of page 71 and top of page 72. All right. So, let's go to the bottom of page 71. The proposed FY26 budget for general government decreased by 1.3 million, increased by this amount. Okay. I think where it starts is the proposed FY26 budget includes 2.5 million. Are you all following along? Various types of insurance claims, $104,462 for workers' compensation medical indemnity payments, $21,944 for additional staffing costs, and then I think this is where we get into the language that Councilor Cassid's concerned about: $60,000 for development and disposition of Midtown property, $48,500 for the city strategic plan, and $10,000 for Spanish language American Sign Language interpreters from Municipal Court. So, do you remember, City Manager Scott, is it just the, is it the 48.5, or is it also the 60? I'm so bad at this. City Manager: When we discussed that, we talked about the 48.5, the strategic plan, and then the 60 was labeled as study in this other document. It wasn't labeled as Midtown disposition. So, I don't, is there a $60,000 for Midtown, or was that last year? Yeah, because if I add those two up, I get the number that I think Councilor Cassid was talking, or maybe you were, those are the same numbers. Yeah, it's $108,500 total. City Manager: Madam Chair, it's from a holdover from last year. Okay. It should, it should have just been very generic as the City Manager statement. Okay. So, basically, just to be clear, it's the $60,000 for development and disposition of Midtown property and the $48,500 for the city strategic plan that we will put in as a reflection as $108,500 for contracts in the City Manager's office. City Manager: Correct. For contingency work that we know crops up in the course of a year, and that, you know, we'll have, we'll have that. So, okay, so just to be clear about what needs fixing in the final, that that's our clear understanding. Yes. Okay. And I'm sorry, we might have to jump back to Councilor Cassid and just let her know what we've done and make sure she's good with that. But, so, well, here, maybe here she comes. Oh, are you leaving us? Okay, we don't have Councilor Cassid yet. Okay, so, oh, you are back. Okay. So, we are having changed the $60,000 for development and disposition of Midtown property and the $48,500 for city strategic plan. And they'll change that to reflect $108,500 available for contracting on a contingency basis based on needs that may crop up in the course of the fiscal year. Okay. Is that, does that suffice your concern? That suffices my concerns. And actually, as long as we're doing these amendments, we should do the same for the change from the green initiative to probably reflect in parks that we're doing this because that's actually something I really want us to call out. So, as long as we're able to make these changes to the narrative, that would also be one that I would request. Yeah. All right. So, deleting the language about $500,000 going to a green bank and adding that money over at parks and putting some sort of language that reflects what's, yeah, that we're using that money and calling it out because I agree. I think we're all, I think we're all, well, I don't, I am supportive. Councilor Cassid said she's supportive. I'll let the other members of the Finance Committee speak for themselves, but I think there will be support for giving a little shot in the arm to our Parks Department. All right. So, are you good for now? I'll come back to you. I'll come back to you once you're dealing with your crisis. Other concerns from the Finance Committee? Does the plan for the, does the plan seem okay? Are there other things that you're like what Councilor Cassid has called out, concerned, Councilor Lee Garcia? Councilor Lee Garcia: Thank you, Madam Chair. And I'm good with all of that. I just wanted to, it piqued my interest because we do have a, and I know Parks isn't here, but we have a fund that's coming in from the bag tax, and I don't, I don't know how that also goes into how we're, we're, how is that being funded? So, the 10-cent fund, how is that funding our beautification of parks? Because that's, this is the direction that we're taking. I want to make sure that that money is being appropriated properly and it's being used, and I think we do have people here who can answer that. Director Oster, did you want to take the first shot at that? Director Oster: Certainly, Madam Chair and Councilor Lee Garcia, my understanding is that the revenue from the plastic bag tax goes into Environmental Services currently, and it funds the sustainability programs within the Environmental Services Department. Let me confirm with the budget team. Is that correct? So, good morning, Andy. Thanks for, I know you've got a lot of things on your plate this morning as we tie everything up in a nice bow. Yes. So, Councilor Lee Garcia, you want to repeat your question? Councilor Lee Garcia: Yeah. So, just, just as a point of inquiry, I mean, we're moving money for parks, but, you know, the 10-cent fee on paper bags. We got rid of the plastic bags. What does that go to? Does it go to parks, or does it, what is, where are we using that? City Manager: Madam Chair, Councilor Garcia, that goes into the Environmental Services Division. So, it doesn't, it doesn't affect the green bank at all. It's, it's part of the revenue stream for the Environmental Services Division fund. It doesn't, and I, I think the question is, does it go into parks? It, it, it funds sustainability programs is what Director Oster thought. Madam Chair, Councilor Garcia, that's my vague understanding, but I, I think we would, for detailed information on what it's used on, and I think we would have to talk to Public Utilities about that, but it does not go to parks. Councilor Lee Garcia: Okay. Okay. I, I was under the understanding that it was for beautification of parks, and I think would like to revisit that at some point. I could be right. I, I, you know, there are so many moving parts in this budget. I can only keep so much in my brain. And so again, the initial intent, from my understanding, and I would have to go back to when it got passed as to where it's supposed to go. And if it's going to environmental services and not parks, then that's an issue. You can certainly refer that question to public utilities. They can give a much better explanation than I can about what the uses are of that. I get it. Yeah, thank you. And then that's, we're good, handy. I would just have to also maybe bring up the question that if we are actually proposing an amendment to the budget book, would it be appropriate for our Finance Committee here to officially vote on that and not just make a recommendation? Being that it is a document, I don't know if it's a legal document, but it's a document that's been presented. And being that we are discussing it and making changes to it, I think it would be in good practice to bring it up to this board to make sure that we're all okay with that. Yeah, historically we don't. So this is a funny thing. We don't, the real document is the resolution. I think Councilor Cassett's point was that we want the budget book to accurately reflect or call out some of the things that are in the resolution. So, I, you know, if you have a problem with any of the changes we're making, I think, you know, let's word smith them now so that you feel okay with them. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I don't have any issue with them. I just think that if any one of us wanted to make changes to this, then I guess we could all make changes without having either a vote or a discussion over it, so to speak, is what it seems like to me. Oh, well, we're having a discussion right now. And I think if one of you said, "Nope, I don't like that," I think then we'd have to address whatever the issue was. Right? I mean, and again, I know that it's, we are the Finance Committee. We also have three members that aren't part of this Finance Committee. So, if they were to bring up similar concerns either at governing body, how would we do that for this? Probably the same way because we can't really, yeah, I mean, hold on just a second. We do it the same way if they had, but again, I don't want this to cause confusion and we've had, we have history here. We are not, this budget book is not the official, this is not what we give to the state. We give the resolution to the state, correct? It, this is just a helpful narrative of some of the things that are in the budget and kind of trying to message the priorities and the tradeoffs that have been made. Not maybe not so much the tradeoffs, but the priorities for the coming fiscal year. So, I, it's, this is tricky. This is a little, it is. And I, and I, I just want to state that, you know, then at that point, then we don't even have to make a change. That's the case. Yeah, I think it, but I think Councilor Cassett does have a good point in that the public, this is a more accessible book and it would be good if it didn't have misinformation in it. Councilor Faulkner, if I can go to her, has an idea, I think. Councilor: Well, I think if we want it to be transparent, then what we do is on the governing body hearing on the budget, then maybe the Finance Chair can explain that we made these changes on the Finance Committee to the narrative and the budget book. Then it's in two or three meetings and we also are able to capture the members of the council that aren't on the Finance Committee. That way we'll be, we're being transparent. I don't know what the mechanism would be to do an amendment because the book isn't what's at question. It's the resolution. So, I think the only way we can go about it is just being very transparent and clear about what we did and why we did it to the budget. And if there are other errors in it, you know, we can, you know, I think we can, we can talk about that. Director Lero, you're at the podium. Madam Chair, just to clarify what's presented to DFA. DFA, we report to DFA on a quarterly basis as well and we have to put it in their format. So it's called LGBMS, I think is the acronym. So the budget, we don't hand them the budget book. We, we convert it to their chart of accounts. I know this is very technical. We convert it to their chart of accounts and that's what's submitted to DFA. That's the, and secondly, you know, I think, I think it's worth reminding everybody that, you know, the wonderful thing about working in municipal government as opposed to state government is we're much more flexible. You know, we can adjust this budget in July, mid-July. You know, we have that ability. Council has that ability. We do budget adjustments. We do all of those things. So, this isn't like at the state, you're done pretty much. Here we have a lot more flexibility. And I just thought it would be worth it to remind everybody. Well, and I think that's an important point and City Manager Scott made that point eight days ago when he presented the budget that based on the economic environment that we are in, we probably will be coming back to look at this budget because of changing and shifting circumstances. So, but I, but I do, I still think Councilor Cassett's point that if, if, you know, again, this is the accessible document and the things we call out here should accurately reflect the things that, yeah, our intention at this time, perfectly worded. So, I, Councilor Lee Garcia, back to you if you had. Yeah, I, I just don't see any harm in us maybe making a formal motion saying we accept her changes. Yeah, and I guess my, yeah, I, I just don't want to start us down that path. I, I think if you have a problem with how we, how we have directed staff to reword, I, I'd like you to voice that now so that we can figure out something that, that feels correct. I, I don't think I, I don't have a problem with the way it was expressed. I'm just saying that what, you know, again, what if there is a counselor that is not in agreement, whether it be Councilor Lindell, Councilor Faulkner, or myself, and, and therefore, you know, we would vote on it. That, that's just my concern. Yeah, I mean, I think if, if what you're going to is that there's somebody who would like to use these funds in a different way, they would have to bring an amendment and it would have to be to the resolution, not to the budget book. So if that's, if that's what's the underlying concern. Madam Chair, I think one of the concerns is transparency and, you know, this is something we've talked about throughout the budget hearings is having more transparency. I just, I, I don't know what mechanism we would use to, because we're not amending the, like the budget book isn't at question. So I'm trying, like I'm racking my brain about what, what would the legal process be to put this, so this on the record. I'm not sure there is one. That's the part that I'm concerned about. Yeah, and I, I don't know, I'm not clear what the transparency issue is. We're talking about the funds right here and the fact that they're not properly reflected here. Councilor Cassett, what I, what I see this is, it's analogous to our memos. So our memo, we always have a memo with any, you know, legislation that we put forward. We never vote on the memo. The memo is just trying to reflect what we're actually voting on. And so I mean, I, I think that if somebody does have an issue with what the meaning of it is, then that's by all means, we have a conversation and figure it out. But right now our budget book is incorrect with what we actually are intending to do. And so right now I feel like this budget book is less transparent in that sense of that it's not accurate. And then once we make a change, we want to make an amendment, then it'll be less accurate again. So I, I understand the issue of transparency, but it is, it's similar. We don't, we don't vote on our memos. We vote on the actual thing, but we want to make sure that the memo is correct in what is being reflected. So we don't really have a legal mechanism because our budget book is not a legal document. Yeah, I think, I think that's a good, well, but and I think it's a good analogy is, you know, it's a good parallel. It's, it's like a memo and we want the memo to be accurate. And what we're doing here is making it accurate. Now if somebody has an issue with how these funds are being used, then, you know, they can bring an amendment to the resolution to use the funds differently for sure. So, Madam Chair, counselors, some of the other transparencies that I found when I was at DFA, they do have to go, if you're doing a BAR that's going to increase or decrease the budget, it goes through DFA. And anytime you're doing that, there are mechanisms not only that the state holds for counties and municipalities and special districts, but also that our ordinance hold. And so we want to make sure that we're just, if we want to be transparent, that we're following all of those. And so anytime there's changes, especially to a budget, you want to make sure that that, you know, for either to committees or to the council to ensure that transparency. And if there are changes within the budget book, I mean, this is the perfect, I change to make sure that we have, but, but to be clear, the changes that you're talking about go into DFA forms. They actually also come back before the governing body before they go to DFA to for us to say, "Yep, we agree with the changes that have been made." And so there, that this, that's like business as usual for the city. That's something we already do. And it's another way of assuring that you can't just go spend money however you want to. And one of the things that DFA does really push is that counties and municipalities and special districts have the authority to make whatever changes they feel so long as it's within the, when that happens, how does that mechanism happen? The first part is the budget and in trainings and so forth, we always make sure to state as a DFA employee that it is a plan. It's not set in stone. It's not anything else. So if there are any changes that need to go for prior to that, then we move forward from there. But it is a plan and it's nothing that is set forth. We don't, you know, they don't hold you to the fire. You're not doing exactly what you say. So long as when you are making these changes outside of this budget plan, you're doing it within the constraints of not only state but also your own. So I just wanted to clarify that. So thank you. So, you know, if we can move forward or if we can't, how do we do that within these constraints that we all have? Thanks. Appreciate the background. All right. Councilor Faulkner. So, I think, I think we may not be talking about the same thing a little bit just listening to the dialogue. I think what Councilor Garcia is pointing to is that he would like any decisions we make around the budget book or around this process to be more formalized. But I, I, I don't think it's a matter that people don't agree with what we're doing. I think Councilor Garcia would just like a formal process. The unfortunate part is I don't think there is a mechanism to formalize that decision. Yeah, and I, I would agree with that and, and I, and I'm concerned that we will create misunderstanding that you can, and we've had this before. We have history prior to you being on the council where thinking that this is the budget book is the official document and can be amended in a formal way and it really can't. Like all we're doing is we're asking for a language change in, in the narrative. We aren't amending the budget here. So then I would suggest that if, if we, if we do want the closest thing I, I can imagine that we can get to on formalizing this decision and the suggestion by Councilor Cassett is that we just have, we have, have to disclose it at the governing body. I mean, it doesn't have to be a long, huge narrative about everything, but we can say, "This question came up in the process. This is what we did to resolve it." Absolutely. I have no problem with that. That means it's on the record on YouTube. It's on the record in our minutes, and then it'll be on the record for the governing body. And I think that's the closest we can get because I'm sitting here using my lobby brain trying to figure out what mechanism there isn't. A mechanism, we'd have to do a resolution or something. And then I do agree that this isn't, this is a draft, really. It's a proposed, it says it on the front. Yeah, the thing about it is, yeah, let's not, again, let's not make a mountain out of a molehill here. I have no problem with us talking about what we have learned in the course of these eight days. I think there'll be a lot of conversation to set the table, if you will, for what we have been talking about, why certain decisions were made, why certain things can or can't be done, what kinds of things we discovered, how we went about addressing them. Absolutely. And we're doing it now in a public meeting. So, there's nothing that isn't transparent here. No. And I think for me, I think it's more about wanting, you know, when you're dealing with these in government and in bureaucracies, a lot of decisions are made informally that the public doesn't always know about. That's the nature of the beast. And so, I do think that Councilor Garcia is right in that we just want to make sure that when we're making informal decisions and there isn't a formal process, but those decisions have an impact on what the public's going to see, then we should do our best to make it as formal as we can. Thank you. Appreciate that. Councilor Garcia: Lee Garcia, just to follow up, and since we're on this topic, if changing the language in the budget book, which is the proposed budget book, changes the way the funds will be used, will that change the way the funds will be used or not? So, if it's not a change in use of funds, and I see that, then I'm okay with not making this one a formal, right? And that's a great point. The change in use of funds is being brought to us in an amendment that isn't ready yet. That's moving the 500,000 from the Green Bank over to parks, and that is coming to us as an amendment and requires a formal vote. And so, you're absolutely right there. Okay. Thank you. All right. Other issues, other questions, other? Councilor Faulkner: I will not be here on Monday. I will be traveling. But because of that, I just wanted to say a couple of words. I really appreciate the level of transparency we had during this budget hearing cycle. You know, when we asked for things, we got them, and we got a lot of details. I think these hearings have been really helpful for me as a green councilor. And then also, I think we had some really robust conversations around things that we want to work on for the next budget cycle. And I think our committee did a really good job of digging into some broader issues that weren't necessarily about a given department, but they were reflective of things that I think the community would like to see change, and that I know on the council some of us would like these things to change. I want to thank staff for all the amazing work they've done. And I know we sit here and we're exhausted, but then we have tasks for them to do after our hearings that they have to have for the next day, and then they're doing more work than we are, really. And so, I really appreciate staff, and I want to do a shout-out to Mike, the IT guy, because he never, he sits in this little closet, we forget about him, but he keeps the, he keeps the ship running, and he got me an outlet that I can get to easily, which is super amazing. I've wanted that for a year. And so, I also want to thank Emily and Mark and Alan for, you know, sticking it out and answering questions and working with us as well. And then my fellow committee members, I've learned so, so much from your line of questions, everybody. It was a very fruitful set of hearings for me. And then, Madam Chair, I think you did a great job managing these hearings. These are intense, and things can get heated sometimes, and I feel like you did a good job of keeping us on track and while understanding that we need lunch. That was amazing. And so, I just thank you, everybody. This is, for me, this has been a great set of hearings, and I think I'm mostly excited because we've identified some things that I think we can do for the next, over the next several months, that can really make this budget process maybe easier and more palatable to the public and a little more transparent. And I think, and I do have to say on the transparency thing, I don't think anything nefarious is happening. I think that people assume things are happening because we're not getting enough information out to the public to show why we're making the decisions we're making. And I think if we could, if we start doing that, I think we can build more trust with the community moving forward for the next cycle. So, thank you, everybody. Thank you, Councilor. Other thoughts? Yeah. Councilor Cassid: Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I did also just want to take the opportunity to thank the budget team, to thank staff, to thank everybody who has been here. And I think we've also had a really good, a lot of good conversation around the budget process. But I actually really want to take an opportunity to thank, see, this is going to be the next six months of me crying. Councilor Lindell and Councilor Romero Worth, I have had, I think this is my sixth budget that I have been on finance with you guys, and I have learned so much. Councilor Marworth, you've been an incredible finance chair, and it has been just such an educational opportunity for me. I think the next six to seven months are me preparing to move forward for the next two years without my two greatest mentors. So, thank you both for all of that you've taught me, and that has brought me here today. And I'm going to miss you guys so much. And I will stop crying now, but I'm going to cry like every day until December. Thank you, Councilor. That's, you're going to make me cry. And I'm not even ready to think about that yet. Councilor Lindell: What do you mean you aren't ready to think about it now? Yeah, I just, I want to take just a moment to thank Councilor Romero Worth for guiding us for eight years as the finance chair. It's a big task. Six. It's a big task. And you've, you've made all the children come to the adult table, and we're grateful for it. Your insight to this and your instincts of where we need to go and moving us onto that path, you've done it gently, but when you needed a stern hand, you let us know in a very kind way. And boy, I'm going to miss working with you, and I can tell you that the city's going to miss you tremendously. So, thanks. Thanks for being willing to do it. You know that I think you've done terrific. Thank you. Thank you, Councilor. Councilor Lee Garcia: Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I want to express my gratitude. I've been on this for the last couple of years, and you know, obviously we have different perspectives a lot of times, and I think that when issues or things that you may not disagree on come to the table and are either debated or at least brought forward, we can have a better perspective on things. And so, very thankful for that. This is definitely a challenging committee to be on because of the amount of time it takes here for the budget hearings, and I can see staff and all the work that's, that's being done from the budget team, all, you know, Director, thank you for your guidance and steering the ship with all of this. I know there's, to Councilor Bachner's point, you know, a lot of times when people don't understand the nuts and bolts of things, they don't, they, they can make judgments on whether things are happening or not happening until you find out the real true details. And even us, a lot of times there's a lot of stuff we don't understand until you actually dig into that stuff. And to City Manager Scott's point, it's like, I don't know if you really want to know all of the fine details because it gets a little messy. And so, as long as we're taking care of the real big stuff, and the small things will take care of themselves eventually, but thank you for to everyone for their work. Thank you, Councilor. Can the budget team come on down here? They're making their way from behind their computers. Madam Chair: You're the best seeing-eye chair I've ever worked with. Madam Chair: For this purpose, can we include Armenia Tapia as well? Oh, absolutely. I absolutely think she's part of the budget team. I want you guys to be in camera view. Maybe you need to go to the podium in order to be seen. So, can we, can our wonderful IT guy, I'd bring you out too, but then all things would cease. Can you flash to the podium, please? There we go. There we go. Now, now, now budget team, act like you like each other and squish in a little bit. There we go. Oh, we got to get Andy in there. Get Andy in there. There we go. All right. Perfect. So, just a ton of thanks to all of you. Emily, you got to get over there. Scooch over. Scooch on over there. You, I, we have no idea, I think honestly, how much work you all put in and how long it takes and all the nitty-gritty details and all the wrangling you all do with all the city departments to get to a moment where we're ready to vote on a resolution that, that defines our priorities for a coming fiscal year. And so, I just want to acknowledge that I, I have some sense, and I think this committee has some sense, but truly I don't think we have, you know, anywhere near the detail of what you all put in in terms of time and and effort on this. And so, just a huge thank you to you for your knowledge, for everything you've done in the last eight days to help clarify things when we've had questions and help us understand what was what. And just again, huge, huge thank you, and I, and I want everybody to know that this is the team that we keep referring to in the back of the room, the budget team. Here they are front, front screen, and just a world of thanks. Oh. Oh, we're going to, Councilor Lindell's going to get a picture. So, [Laughter] yes. All right. It needs to go on our Facebook page soon. Thank, thank you all. Really appreciate all the work. Yes. Andy Hopkins, our, our head budget guru. I, I just want to give extra special thanks also to my team, including Armenia, who really kept us going with a lot of the logistics. Alexis, who took on budgets even though she didn't really have to because budget is not in her job description. Of course, Chris and Christina, who I forced them up to the podium a few times, and they were very nervous about that, but they did great, I think. But an extra, extra special thanks to Anita Medina, who, as you know, is retiring soon. This is her last budget season. It's also Alexis's last budget season. So, shout out to her. But I wanted to give extra thanks to, to Anita because one of the things that you were talking about that you don't really see behind the scenes in the budget office, probably the most challenging thing that we do, not probably, definitely the most challenging thing we do is keep up with the, the personnel listings. They are shifting every day. They are constantly in flux. We're maintaining them on an Excel sheet. Anita, when she started a few years ago, took a very disorganized and messy process that I was just kind of throwing up my hands and I don't know what the heck to do with this. She took it, she organized it, she created policies and procedures to maintain all of it. She cleaned it all up, which was literally she was working nights and weekends for months on end getting that done. And she's still, Chris and Christina, I know, are still learning from her every day on how to maintain it. And it's just been a real Herculean task and it could not have been done without her. So, special thanks to Anita. Thank you. Thank you for giving us that detail and that recognition. And thank you. I can take no credit for lunch. I want to say I think that was, but I do think it was an improvement this time around. So I want to, I think the credit goes to the staff who said, "Hey, we really would like lunch." Okay. And I think honestly it was, it was good to take a break and just give us some space to regroup and get some fresh air and stuff. So I think that was a huge improvement, but I will not take credit for it. And yeah, this is my last, my last budget. Yeah, that's amazing. I want to say how much I learned from all of you and all of your questions and and just this process. And I think we're talking about ways to make it better and I think there are improvements that we can make. And I think we have some expertise in Mark Scott and in Rod, our special counsel to the mayor, who can help us position this in a different way for the future. So we'll be working on that in the remainder of the year and I look forward to that. And yeah, this is, I remember when I took the chair over when Roman was no longer here, it was, he felt like big shoes to me. And I remember the first hearing, I actually called him up and I said, "All right, give me some advice. This is going to be my first round. What do I need to know?" So shout out to him as well, because he certainly helped my first, my first budget after he left. And he did a great job because I think I've served on this committee for eight years and he was the chair the first two years. So anyway, it's a big task. Lots of people involved to get to this moment. So I think we still don't have an amendment. We've taken up some time this morning. So I think we will wait to do the final budget vote on Monday's Finance Committee where the amendment will be ready and we can vote on the amendment and vote on the resolution and it'll be ready for the Wednesday meeting. Anything else? I don't think we do need a motion to postpone because we're just going to, we're just going to put it on the agenda for, we're closing out the hearings, but we're going to put the resolution itself on the agenda for, although in the, yeah, actually, well that's, it's an interesting point. Director Oster, you had a thought on this. It was noticed as an action item. So I think we should probably indicate that the committee deferred action to Monday. Okay. All right. So move to postpone to the May 12th Finance Committee meeting. Regular Finance Committee meeting. Second. All right. We have a motion in a second. Do we need a roll call or what do we do here? Let's do a roll call just to make sure. Okay, everything's covered. All right. Okay. Councilor Cassid? Yes. Councilor Lindell? Councilor Faulkner? Yes. Councilor Lee Garcia? Yes. Chair Romero? Yes. Motion passes. Okay. Thank you. I think that you're, you guys are all absolutely right. That's the right thing to do. We're, we're thinking on our feet here as we go along. All right. So, with that, we'll adjourn for the day and I'll, we'll see you Monday night.