Bicycle and Pedestrians Advisory Committee Thu, Oct 9, 2025 ยท Bicycle and Pedestrians Advisory Committee https://santafeminutes.space/meeting/489 == Executive Summary == The Bicycle and Pedestrians Advisory Committee held a meeting where they discussed various aspects of bicycle and pedestrian safety, focusing heavily on motorist accountability and infrastructure improvements. Key discussions included the formation of an ad hoc committee to develop policy recommendations for motorist accountability in collisions involving cyclists, particularly in light of a recent fatal crash. The committee also delved into the interpretation of reckless driving statutes and the challenges of traffic enforcement due to staffing limitations. Public comments highlighted concerns about infrastructure design, the need for immediate, low-cost safety improvements, and the perception that cyclist-involved crashes are not taken as seriously as other traffic incidents. The committee approved the agenda with amendments and the minutes from the previous meeting. They also received updates from Bike Santa Fe and the Santa Fe MPO regarding ongoing initiatives like bike rack funding and public infrastructure manuals. Action items include the ad hoc committee beginning its work, staff ensuring public communications are accessible, and the committee considering specific audit recommendations for future discussions. The meeting underscored the committee's commitment to improving safety for vulnerable road users through policy, education, and collaboration with law enforcement. == Key Decisions == - Motion to amend the agenda to defer items 7C and 7D to the December meeting passed. - Motion to approve the September 11th, 2025 meeting minutes passed. - An ad hoc committee was formed to develop a white paper on policy recommendations to enhance motorist accountability in collisions involving cyclists. Members appointed include Ellen Wang (Chair), Gary Schiffmiller, Bill Adrian, and Khil Spencer. == Motions & Votes == - Motion to amend the agenda to defer items 7C and 7D to the December meeting โ€” Passed (Roll call vote: Gabriel-Yes, Pilcher-Yes, Pengilli-Yes, Shipmiller-Yes, Garcia-Yes). - Motion to approve the September 11th, 2025 meeting minutes โ€” Passed (Roll call vote: Gabriel-Yes, Pilcher-Yes, Pengilli-Yes, Shipmiller-Yes, Garcia-Yes). - Motion to move item 7B (formation of ad hoc committee) before item 7A โ€” Passed (Roll call vote: Borgay-Yes, Gabriel-Yes, McConnell-Yes, Pilchure-Yes, Pengilly-Yes, Schiff Miller-Yes, Garcia-Yes). == Public Comment == Public comments highlighted several key themes: the need for infrastructure design that accommodates all users, including those with physical limitations; calls for immediate, low-cost safety improvements over large-scale projects; and a strong interest in developing police recommendations for crashes involving cars and bicycles. Specific concerns included a previous recommendation for a path at Sawmill and St. Francis, a near-miss incident at a four-way stop suggesting more crosswalk painting, and the lack of reasonable transit options. An online attendee expressed interest in joining a potential committee to develop police recommendations for crashes involving cars and bicycles. There was also a perception articulated that cyclist-involved crashes are not treated with the same seriousness as motor vehicle-only incidents, and a suggestion that reduced citation fees have diminished their impact on encouraging compliance with traffic laws. == Topics == - Bicycle Safety & Crashes - Infrastructure Design & Improvements - Speed Limits & Traffic Calming - Data & Reporting on Incidents - Bike Racks - Idaho Stop Law Awareness - Henry Lynch Road Project - Asakia Trail Extension - Public Safety Advisory Committee - Mayoral & City Council Forums == Full Transcript == Gloria, sorry, tongue-tied over here, Miss Gloria Samas, can we get a call this meeting to order and can we get a roll call, please? Member Angela Bird Gray, she will be attending, but she's late. Patrice Farrell excused. Member Judith Gabriel. Here. Member Tony Gerix excused. Member Mark McConnell. Member Steve Pilchure. Here. Member Ben Pengilli. Here. Member Gary Shipm Miller. Here. Member Helen Wang excused. Chair Michael Garcia. Present. You have a quorum, Mr. Chair. Okay. Thank you so much. Next up is approval of tonight's agenda. Before we get into that, I do want to note that we have a hard stop tonight at 6:45 p.m. Due to that, there is a special governing body meeting taking place in the City Council Chambers at 7:00. We need to allow for the governing body members to get prepared and settled before the meeting. So, with that being said, as we're working through the agenda, if we're getting close to that 6:45 time frame, I will ask that we begin to wrap up whatever discussion we're having and then postpone the remainder of any portion of the remainder agenda that we have not completed at this moment. So, that's just on the front end. Member Gabriel. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to propose that we defer 7C until the December meeting. I've been asked to look into this and I would like more time to look into it and I won't be at the November meeting. So that would take one item off the agenda. Thank you. Okay. So we got a request to move item 7C to November. Would you like to make a motion to December? Any other changes from folks? Okay. If not, would you like to make a motion to amend the agenda to reflect that change? I move that we amend the agenda to defer 7C, item 7C, to the December meeting. Okay, we got a second. Any discussion? Okay. With that being said, table or postpone? Okay. Yeah, because table is we hold it in the meeting. Postpone is which item was that? 7D, as in dog. Okay. Any other changes from staff? We have a, we approve the agenda as amended. Hold on. We've got already a motion on the floor. So, member Gabriel, would you like to withdraw your motion because your motion only includes your initial amendment? Sure, I withdraw. How about member Shipmiller? Okay. Now, member Pilcher, I move we approve the agenda with items 7C and 7D removed from the agenda. Is there a second? And we've got a second discussion and then Miss Clario must come and get a roll call. Yes. Member Gabriel. Yes. Member McConnell. Member Pilcher. Yes. Member Bengilly. Yes. Membership Miller. Yes. Chair Garcia. Yes. Motion passed. Okay. So, next up is item four, approval of minutes, request of approval of September 11th, 2025 meeting minutes. Any changes from staff? Any changes for members? Seeing none, is there a motion to approve? I move that we approve the minutes from September. There's a motion to approve. Is there a second? Second. Member Pilcher. Any discussion? Seeing none, Miss Glorios, can we get a roll call vote, please? Member Gabriel. Yes. Member McConnell. Member Pilcher. Yes. Member Pengilli. Yes. Member Shipmiller. Yes. Chair Garcia. Yes. Member Board Gray. Minutes. But we're she, she, yeah. Okay. Your approval of meeting minutes. Okay. Motion passed. Did you say yes for me? Did you take a, okay. Sorry. Next up, communications from the public. I didn't see any written communications in the packet. Was there to be any included? Yes, Mr. Chair. I included two communications from the public. Okay. Can we make sure that they're posted online because I'm not seeing anything on the online portal and it's. I posted it up. Yeah. Uploaded it on the. City Clerk. Okay. Let's connect after just to make sure that they're accessible. Yes, that's okay. Okay. We'll do two. Any members of the public that would want to speak? Hopefully the similar process. Two minutes. Yes. Thank you, Chair Garcia and committee members. Jennifer Weber, 132 Romero Street, number 11. I wanted to speak briefly on an item that you moved from the agenda to December. That's item 7C. But in case I'm not at that meeting, I wanted to remind the committee that when I presented to you the findings and recommendations of the Bike Santa Fe bike audits several months ago, one of the locations that we, where we conducted an audit was at Sawmill in St. Francis and one of our recommendations was a path from the Viskaya Apartments around to the shopping center just as Mr. Gonzalez described in his letter and in that presentation I made which I sent to staff, to Romela, there was a photo exactly of the path that he described. So I invite you to take a look at that as you consider recommendation around that. Thank you. Thank you, Jennifer. Feel free, come on up. Anybody else feel free to line up. Thank you, Chair Garcia and committee. Cal Spencer, 134 Camino de Lascita, Santa Fe. Just a quick comment. I learned this last month what it's like to be a vulnerable user. And so I have a lot of consideration and empathy for other vulnerable users out there. My life, I've a very fit cyclist, never worried about much of anything. End of August, I ballooned a disc in my back and it was blocking one of the main nerves in my left leg. So, I'm down about 40 to 50% strength. And as I found out the first time I tried to get out of the saddle and get clear of an intersection, my left leg didn't know what my right leg was doing. That may not be just me. That may be a lot of people out there who aren't exquisitely fit young bicyclists. And when we design infrastructure such as the light at Citus and St. Francis, which is so quick I couldn't even get through it tonight without it turning red. That's a consideration. We're not all catwin racers out there. And that's something the committee really has to fight hard to make our transportation planners remember. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Spencer. Any other members of the public? Hi, Nathan Lemons, 112 Scundo NFA. And I'm a member of the technical review. So I just wanted to say, I feel like I've been kind of watching the sidelines for several years, this committee and what's going on in Santa Fe is in Santa Fe. And it feels like there's a lot of emphasis on big projects and as much emphasis on smaller that can, this is different from that, things that I see that could make big different, well, things that could make a difference immediately without costing a lot of money, get rid of on, hey, there's a lot of pedestrians. I've almost been hit at least 10 times crossing the street on a crosswalk with the I St. Francis and Sod. So, those places have right turns. People don't look to the left. And if we got rid of inter, the signalized intersections where we don't need them and put them forward stops, it would also be a lot safer. And if we restripe some of the roads, we don't have to stripe some. Been on this committee's wish list for several years to do that sail to Peralta and I may, I don't see any of that happen. And I think the last thing I wanted to mention to the committee was that one of the things I think that holds people back from biking, walking in Santa Fe is the lack of reasonable, that so five years now with service reduced drivers is kind of so thank you. Thank you, Nathan. Appreciate that. Hey. I'm Pat Vagal in District 1. Just as an addendum to that previous comment, I was almost hit by a car at a four-way stop crossing Po de Peralta by a car that just kept rolling through the intersection. The truck was about as tall as me, about 5'5. And I think it would maybe painting some of the, some more crosswalks would help. I don't, I mean, it was a four-way stop. I don't know why he didn't see a pedestrian already in the street when he got to the stop sign and just rolled through. But maintaining some more cross. Thank you. Thank you, Pat. Anybody else in the audience? Anybody online? One attendee. Do we know who the attendee is? Okay. Mike, can we promote the attendee to see if they might have a comment or if the attendee's listening and feel free to raise your hand and we can allow them to speak if, don't want to put them on the spot by any means. You might just be chiming in or zooming in. I didn't see their hands raised. So, we went to the attendee. I didn't see the hand raised. Oh, I do see it now. There we go. Mike, can we promote the attendee to allow them to speak, please? Is still see their hand raised. Reena, if you're free to speak, I think you might need to unmute yourself. There you go. There you go. Yes, the floor is yours. Oh, I just wanted to mention that I was suggest, I was offered, suggested by a committee member that I attend the meeting as there was possibility for, how do I put, for police, let me pull up the mess, for a committee forming to develop police recommendations for the police when dealing with crashes involving cars and bicycles and that this could be something good that I could, it could be something that I be a part of. As I have mentioned, I have brought comments to the, to the committee, to BPAC about increasing penalties and involvement. And so this is my main reason for attending and so I don't have a comment at this time, but I just like to, I just put myself here that I'd like to, I'd like to be a part of this committee if it, if it does come forward today. Okay. Thank you so much for the comments. Thank you, sir. Yes, absolutely. Anybody else from the audience? Okay, I'm not seeing any. Let's go and move on to item 6A, bike update from Bike Santa Fe. Mr. Seaton. Thank you for having me. I'm David Seaton with Bike Santa Fe and we had our board meeting two nights ago and the majority of the evening was spent on not surprising bicycle safety and driver accountability. We have also this last month, we've hosted the mayoral forum on September 18th at Timber Routt, the candidates and had a very robust interactions around bicycle and bicycle safety. We also did a very robust questionnaire with these city council candidates and had six responses. We're going to be sending out a newsletter real soon on their responses. We had a very good response from them about bicycle safety and inactivity and other matters. We're also evaluating collaborating with hopefully no on more bike racks. I'm sure Leah is going to be speaking about that more soon. Then the last thing is is we're going to really try to promote a lot more awareness of the Idaho stop law and go to bicycle shops, go to sporting goods places, but we got to start somewhere just for people to know what it is. And I've got lots of brochures and flyers with me if anybody wants more copies or doesn't know what it is. Be glad to leave that with you. So that's all. Okay. Any questions from the committee members for Mr. Seaton? Seeing none. Great presentation. Thank you. Next up, Santa Fe Mo Leah. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. I actually don't have a whole lot to report today. Thanks for catching me earlier. So, we are still working on getting funding for the bike racks, the custom Santa Fe bike racks that we would be able to put downtown. We're also working with Reanimator on bike racks that could go in public property, public right-of-way outside of downtown. And then we approached Bike Santa Fe to see if they would do, be able to provide some funding for bike racks that go on private property because that's actually where a lot of the demand is other than downtown. Otherwise, we're still working with the street design or the public infrastructure manual, which is kind of the between document for the code. Then it goes the manual and then the street design guide. That's still in the works, and we'll have more to report about that hopefully within the next few months. But that's about it right now, and I'll stand for any questions. Okay. **Speaker:** Thank you, Lee. Any questions, members? Seeing none. Thank you so much for the update. Let's move on to item 6C. Public Safety Advisory Committee member Pilchure had a very, excuse me, we had a very brief meeting last month. The chair was not quite ready, all the material for us to start re-examining our resolution, which spells out the duties of the committee. And we will be meeting on the 21st to begin that discussion. It was a very short meeting. Any questions for member Pilchure? Being none, thank you. Good luck with the next meeting. Let's move on to item seven, which is discussing possible action on items. I'm going to ask for a quick, quick motion to move actually item 7B up so we can get that done, just because I know 7A is going to be a lengthy discussion, and it might take us that full 45 minutes left that we have the rest of this meeting. So I'm going to make a motion to move immediately to item 7B. Okay, so we got a motion and a second. Miss Cler, can we get a roll call vote, please? **Speaker:** Yes, Mr. Chair. Member Borgay, member Gabriel. **Speaker:** Yes. **Speaker:** Member McConnell. **Speaker:** Yes. **Speaker:** Member Pilchure. **Speaker:** Yes. **Speaker:** Member Pengilly. **Speaker:** Yes. **Speaker:** Member Schiff Miller. **Speaker:** Yes. **Speaker:** Chair Garcia. **Speaker:** Yes. **Speaker:** Motion passes. **Speaker:** Okay. Thank you so much. So 7B is the formation of an ad hoc committee to develop a fact-based white paper outlining policy recommendations for enhancing motorist accountability in collisions involving cyclists. And so this is a committee we talked about last meeting. And so we've got four folks right now that we're going to be appointing. I know there was a gentle lady that was online that said she'd be interested. So, we can always add her next meeting, unless, because she's not on my list of folks to be appointed right now. **Speaker:** It was not on the agenda anyway, Mr. Chair. **Speaker:** Okay. So, with that being said, to the participant online, please tune in, and if you're interested, we can work with you and Romela to make sure you get that. If she's still interested, we can appoint her next week. That's okay. So with that being said, there are four folks I'm going to be appointing to this committee. Two are BPAC members: Ellen Wang, she will be the chair, Gary Schiffmiller. Then non-BPAC members will be Bill Adrian and Khil Spencer. And so I'm going to make those four appointments, and then Miss Wang will begin to coordinate and meet with the members of the committee. So with that, now we're done with that item. We can now go to 7A, which is follow-up discussion on driver accountability in collisions involving cyclists, including a question and answer with representatives from the Santa Fe Police Department regarding the recent fatal crash involving cyclist Steve Ballinger to inform the formulation of policy recommendations for enhancing cyclist safety. And so, Lieutenant, thank you for joining us tonight. To give some context, since you weren't at this meeting last month, the committee had a pretty robust discussion regarding the very unfortunate situation where Mr. Ballinger lost his life. And the committee wants to begin to take the steps of how can we as a community be proactive and work in collaboration with the police department and ensure that there are measures taken to ensure for cyclist and pedestrian safety. But in addition to that, potential penalty increases, changes, etc., because we want to ensure that there are systems in place that when unfortunate situations like that occur, that there is accountability at hand. So that's some quick context. Member Schiff Miller brought forward this agenda item last month, and so I want to end the floor off first to member Schiff Miller to maybe reacquaint the committee, anybody else that wasn't here, and then again, this will just be a dialogue, and we can have many conversations on this. Given that we do have 45 minutes, I'll make sure that when we're getting maybe to that five minutes before we've got a wrap-up mark, we begin to wrap up our comments, and then we'll move forward accordingly. So with that, member Chief Miller, I'll yield the floor to you. **Speaker:** Thank you, Chair Garcia. So, just to review, this issue was brought up because of the death of Mr. Steven Ballinger. He was riding his bike southbound on Cerrillos Road. He was going through the intersection at Osage Avenue when a northbound driver took a left turn and failed to yield. And I think these, this is not under dispute. These are the facts as I understand them. There was some question as to whether the driver ran a red light or if it was a flashing yellow, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Say flashing yellow. Nevertheless, there was a failure to yield. Mr. Ballinger struck the car and died. My understanding is that the driver of the car was cited with careless driving. And so, a lot of us are wondering, you know, how is it that you kill a bicyclist and you get a slap on the wrist? I mean, kill a bicyclist after violating a traffic law, not just sort of, you know, it's not like he accidentally drifted out of his lane or anything like that. The guy intentionally took a left, and all the witnesses, all the other southbound drivers said they had to slam their brakes to avoid him. And yet the driver basically got off scot-free. Not entirely, but for all practical purposes. So the community is very upset, and we want to understand why there is not a more vigorous enforcement of the law as written, because a reckless driving statute under paragraph B says a person operating a motor vehicle shall not endanger a bicyclist. That's from the Santa Fe Uniform Traffic Ordinance. It's not in the state statute, but it's in the city statute. And even if one disputes whether or not the driver willfully disregarded the safety of others by failing to yield, and it seems to me he did, but even if that's disputed, I don't think we can dispute that a person operating the motor vehicle endangered a bicyclist. So, we want to understand why he wasn't charged with reckless driving. **Speaker:** Read that, just that part again for me. **Speaker:** I'll read the reckless driving statute from the UTO. It says, "Any person who drives any vehicle carelessly and heedlessly in willful or wanton disregard for the rights or safety of others and without due caution and circumspection and at a speed or in a manner so as to endanger or be likely to endanger any person or property is guilty of reckless driving. B. A person operating a motor vehicle shall not endanger a bicyclist." And C talks about the punishment. Okay. C. "Every person convicted of reckless driving shall be punished: one, upon a first conviction by imprisonment for not less than 5 days nor more than 90 days or by a fine of not less than $25 nor more than $100 or both; and two, on a second or subsequent conviction by imprisonment for not less than 10 days nor more than 90 days or by a fine of not less than $50 nor more than $300 or both." So, that's the reckless driving statute in its entirety. **Speaker:** And the part B says specifically, "will not endanger a bicyclist," and that's all it says. **Speaker:** A person operating a motor vehicle shall not endanger a bicyclist. I don't want to speculate on why the officer that investigated this case and charged didn't charge reckless driving in terms of that section. The way that I personally would read that is intentionally endanger a bicyclist, meaning there's a bicyclist on the road, I see them there, and I do something to intentionally endanger their safety or their life. That's the way I would personally read that, but I don't know why Officer Martinez did not charge that particular part of the statute or the ordinance in terms of reckless driving. I couldn't, I can't answer that question for him, and I'm not going to try and do that. I don't, I don't want to speculate. **Speaker:** I would point out the word "intentionally" is not in there. **Speaker:** Right. I agree with that. I agree 100% with that, but that's the way that I would read that personally, and if I were going to charge it, that would be my reasoning for charging that particular part of the statute for reckless driving. **Speaker:** Deputy Chief Valdez was quoted in the New Mexican. And, well, I guess I should, I'll read it so I won't paraphrase it. He said, "We have to look at what the intent is. And for us, we really have to get down to the details to find out how did this happen and what role did the offender play in it." Valdez said, "If it was a lower standard, then maybe there might be a bit more room. But when it's beyond a reasonable doubt, it has to fit with the charge, with what the charge language is. If it doesn't fit with reckless, but it does with careless, that's what we're left to charge with." I should have read above that Valdez pointed to the language in the reckless driving statute requiring, quote, "willful or wanton disregard of the rights or safety of others," unquote, saying, quote, "if it's willful or wanton disregard for the safety, that's more of a deliberate act of the driving the vehicle into someone to cause harm or dismemberment versus someone that is driving without even their full attention." He seems to be saying that the willful act is driving into the bicyclist. I would not read the statute that way. I would say the willful act is willfully driving in a way to disregard the safety of others. The willful act being failure to yield. If the driver had willfully driven into the bicyclist, I think that would be a much more serious charge. You know, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon or some such thing. **Speaker:** Right. **Speaker:** Or even vehicular homicide would be covered under that. **Speaker:** Yes. **Speaker:** Incident. And I've, I've, in reading these statutes, it seems to me that it's pretty clear that reckless driving is a prerequisite for a vehicular homicide. **Speaker:** Correct. Right. It, we cannot charge vehicular homicide without either reckless driving or even a DUI. **Speaker:** Right. **Speaker:** Being involved, right? Careless driving doesn't fit under that. And there's case law that supports the fact that careless driving cannot be a precursor for vehicles. And that's the reason why we were wondering why reckless driving is not used more frequently when it seems like there is a willful disregard to the safety of others. I know I'm, we're talking about this one incident, but I'd like to generalize it. It happens much more frequently than that. It happened to me personally where a driver willfully drove in disregard of safety and hit me. The officer charged her with careless driving. And I went to the assistant district attorney to make my case that she should get reckless driving. He flat out refused. And he didn't say that what she did didn't meet the bar of reckless driving. He said he didn't want to treat her that harshly because she was elderly. That seems frankly outrageous to me. I mean, how old does one have to be before one no longer has to drive safely? It's, it's kind of ridiculous. **Speaker:** And, and I agree on that point for sure. I will say in this particular case with Mr. Ballinger's incident, the officer that handled that investigation did consult with the District Attorney's office, and their recommendation also was careless driving in this case, not reckless driving. And I think it's possible that the District Attorney's office has a proclivity to undercharge when it comes to a bicyclist. That's my belief. I wish I could give you an opinion on that, but I can't. I understand. I understand. We work together. I think I speak for a lot of people in the community when I say that. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this. And unfortunately, we don't have, we as law enforcement, have the ability to charge, and we don't have the ability to 100% tell the DA, in a sense, what to do, blunt about it. I understand. And unfortunately, because of that, a lot of these situations happen with people questioning like you are right now. Thank you. Anyone else? Any other questions? I mean, I don't think so because I don't think the Lieutenant can really, he can't speak for the DA's office, etc., like he said. So, I guess I made my points. Member Culture: Thank you. You may have already addressed this, Officer Garcia, but I'm just wondering what is the process? So obviously, I assume a patrol officer comes out and investigates the accident. Is there some type of then secondary review involved if there's a fatality? So, in a case like Mr. Bellinger's incident, if there is a crash involving great bodily harm or a motor vehicle fatality, those particular cases are actually handed over to our traffic division, who is certified to be able to investigate those types of crashes. We have a motor vehicle fatal team, is what they're titled as. And in this particular case, Officer Martinez is a part of that. He is a full-time traffic officer, fully certified to do these types of investigations. And he was called out that evening to come to this particular incident. So, a patrol officer or whoever arrives on scene initially will kind of relay what they have in terms of the information from the crash, and then they will contact a supervisor. And at that point, the supervisor, if it results in great bodily harm or a fatality, they will call out the supervisor for the fatal team to include the officers. There happened to be a supervisor working that night that was a former traffic officer, and he's the one that ended up activating the fatal team and calling the two on-call traffic officers out for that particular incident. They go through, do a bunch of measurements, collect as much evidence as they can at the scene, and in this particular case, they had to collect evidence at the hospital as well because Mr. Bellinger was transported to the hospital from the scene. And then the main investigator, which in this case was Officer Martinez, will basically go through the measurements and do a full diagram of the crash, try and reconstruct the crash as much as possible with the information that frequently is given, and come to a determination as to what happened. We were lucky enough to have the two witnesses that Chief Miller mentioned on scene. They stayed on scene. They were able to give statements right away. So, they were able to kind of paint the picture of what had occurred prior to the crash and what occurred when the crash happened. And then again, he goes through the rest of his investigation. And based on all the information, he will then consult the District Attorney's office. A lot of times in these instances, the officers have already come up with a charge in their head, but they consult with the District Attorney's office to make sure that they're on the same page. They're not undercharging, they're not overcharging, that sort of thing. And then ultimately, they come to a decision and an agreement in reference to what's presented evidence-wise and the proper charge, and that's what happened in this case. So, the final decision is made in conjunction with the District Attorney. Correct. Correct. Any other questions? Member Coach, Member Gabriel. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, this is a comment and a question. There were a lot of people at our last meeting from the cycling community, and I think I am representing this correctly by saying the perception is when there's a crash, an injury, or a death that involves a cyclist, that it is not taken as seriously as if it had occurred with motor vehicles. Am I representing that correctly from the comments? I think that's the perception among the community. So, I think that's very concerning, and I am wondering how BPAC can work with law enforcement to correct that perception and make sure that these cases are being treated fairly. I'm obviously not a law enforcement person, so I don't have all of the facts from your side, but I think it's really dangerous when people feel like they're not being treated fairly by law enforcement. So, I would love to talk about some ideas about working together to change that perception. And I also, I know your role is to enforce the laws, but I do think there could be an educational role here that we may be able to collaborate on as well. I had brought this up at the last meeting that so it's my understanding that this person ran a flashing yellow. A lot of these flashing yellows are new, and I think there's some confusion about what they mean or whether people should go or not. And obviously, this person should not have gone. So, I would love for us to work together to one, change that perception, and two, see if we can work on some education together. Thank you. Chairman, do you mind if I address that? So, to go back a little bit to what you first said about the perception, I don't disagree with you. I think just from hearing outside of just in this room, I agree the perception probably is that way. But in our agency alone, we have a bicycle team. We have a team, and I don't know if you've seen some of them around. We have our own bicycle team, and I am a part of that. So, I think the department alone doesn't have that same mindset. It is a perception, and that's the sad part of it. But the fact that we have our own bicycle team, we take bicycle safety very, very seriously. To the point where we get on our own guys for not wearing their helmets when they're riding their bikes around, even if they're in a training situation or environment. So, it's not just safety for everybody else out there, it's safety for themselves as well. The second part of that in terms of trying to collaborate and figure out how to maybe correct some of these issues, the flashing yellow lights, I think is has been kind of an issue because you're right, people are confused as to whether or not they can go. We had a committee, and it was basically a quarterly meeting that we would have. We only had one meeting with a female, and I can't remember her name because again, we only had one meeting, and from what I've heard, she's no longer with the city. She came from Albuquerque. She basically started a committee in Albuquerque addressing issues with streets, issues with pedestrian and bicyclist crashes, and that sort of thing. And I thought the first meeting that we had, we kind of had pretty good traction in terms of identifying some problem areas to start with. But again, she's no longer with the city, so I don't know where that is going to go. I don't again remember her name. Yes. And I thought that was a pretty good start to be able to kind of curb some of these issues. The flashing yellow lights, in all reality, that's something that we can address with our streets people that deal with the lights and that sort of thing. And the reason I say that is because if anybody drives into Santa Fe via St. Francis in the mornings at 8:00, you know, and probably in the past, it's not as bad as it used to be, but probably in the past, you know how bad the traffic used to back up on the highway itself because of those lights. We were able to get a hold of the technicians and the people that are in charge of that, and they did their own survey. They came out the next day, did their own survey at the lights on St. Francis all the way up to I think Sonteo, and they realized that the light cycles were off, and they changed it, which is why now if you're driving north on St. Francis at Suringo, you don't get the turn lane automatically to turn onto Seringo. It's the turn lane and the green comes from the southbound traffic, and then the light will change to green, and it'll start flashing yellow for the turn there, and then we get the green turn after all that traffic is pretty much cleared out. That was one of the changes that they made, and they, I think it's at Sawmill the same way, especially at that time in the morning. So, we have the ability to affect some of that stuff with the lights. We just have to have the information that maybe we're not fully aware of in terms of where these flashing yellows are at and where they're most dangerous to be able to say that. And again, that is something also that would go into more stats, I guess, would be the word for it, because we would need to do some type of study and conduct some type of, get some type of statistical information in terms of crashes at those intersections or even, excuse me, pedestrian or bicycle-related incidents at those intersections that those flashing lights are at. So that we can kind of make that educated decision as to which ones we need to address first, and then which ones maybe aren't an issue. So, we do have the ability to take care of that, but without the actual knowledge and without putting together that information, it's kind of hard for us to be able to do that because we're kind of throwing our decisions at different intersections that may not be an issue. That one at Crios, I think is probably one of the Serios and St. Mike is probably one of the first ones that we should probably address. The other part of that is I don't know if we service those lights or if that's done by DOT because Srios Road is a state road. Rios and St. Francis are both state roads. Obviously, our transit people took care of St. Francis. So, I'm assuming we probably can take care of it with our same people, the lights, but we again, I would have to be able to look that up and make sure I get the proper information for you all because I don't want to give you bad information on that as well. Thank you. And I have another comment/question. The amount of red light running in this town is outrageous. And as a cyclist myself, and every cyclist I speak to, and some pedestrians as well, have almost been hit numerous times from people running red lights or turning right on red where they should not be. And I know this is probably a bigger policy question for our governing body about red light cameras, but if that happens, and until that happens, is there anything else that can be done to enforce the traffic laws? Because somebody's going to get killed one of these days. It's amazing that there haven't been more deaths and injuries. So, I'm really concerned about that. And do you have any ideas about how to address that until we have some additional strategies? Yes and no. I believe I agree with you there. It is, we see it very frequently. The problem is, is it's so frequent. We don't have a police officer at every intersection that this would be happening at, and that in itself is a challenge for us as a department. Right now, we're trying to get more officers on the streets to be able to help enforce these traffic laws, but our traffic division, if you would, is four motor officers and a sergeant. And with us, the amount of population that is in the city, especially during the work week, that is absolutely not enough. We probably could triple that, and it still probably wouldn't be enough, but it would be a lot nicer. The only way for us to be able to take care of it is in all reality for our traffic guys to be out there as much as possible, which they are. It's just we don't have the numbers. We don't have the bodies to sit at all these different intersections because it happens pretty frequently at a lot of intersections. I see it, and I try to address it as much as I possibly can too, but again, I'm only one person, and we just don't have the manpower for it to be able to address it 100% all the time. I think to me personally, I think a lot of our fines and fees for citations since they went down have been a huge issue in terms of it not necessarily being a big deal for people. I think once you hit people in the pocketbooks in those ways for citations and stuff, it makes a bigger impact. But when they lowered the citation fees, I think it made it to where it wasn't as important in terms of them obeying the laws. It's funny how if you see a cop at an intersection, they're going to obey the laws, but I guarantee you if there was a cop there in an unmarked vehicle and people didn't know it was a police officer, they're going to break the law as much as possible. They're going to do those traffic violations. So it would be nice to have more people. That would be the main solution for us to have more officers to be able to help enforce these laws, but we just don't have that staff to be able to do that right now, especially with the size of city that we have in the population during the week. **Speaker:** Thank you. **Speaker:** Sure. **Speaker:** Any other questions before I go back to Member Pilchure? Pilchure, the floor is yours. Just a quick question. When were those fees reduced? **Speaker:** I couldn't tell you 100%. I know it's probably been a couple of years now. **Speaker:** Recently. Yes. Member Schiff Miller. Let's go to Gary since Miffer. **Speaker:** Thank you, Chair, and thank you for being here tonight. I appreciate this dialogue. It just struck me, so to speak, that on the issue of running red lights and how common that is, that affects motor vehicles even more so, meaning that's like a huge traffic violation, isn't it? I mean, talking about smaller units like people and bikes and walking, but because it behooves a strong policy against running red lights and potentially increasing fees as well. The other issue, this is really helpful to learn how it works. The traffic, you said the traffic, is it the traffic engineer or the traffic department? And that is in public works with you all, and we had a director for a short time who left, who was actually begun to address this or has done this in Albuquerque. Those are the folks who are that regulate or the lighting, I mean, the traffic light timing, that's theirs. And so it sounds like that has been able, that was addressed for some of the intersections, and so that's good to know. It seems like this is largely, if it's the purview or that entity holds just as much influence in reducing crashes as the police department. And there's a question somewhere. Oh, on the issue of the yellow flashing lights. So those appeared, and I like them. I think they're great. However, not everybody knows how to use them. And also the city proactively put up signs that said "new." I wonder from the traffic division how that was rolled out and how that was, where they decided to put those, and also if they've got data on results of how that's going. I think that would be valuable to have, and maybe we don't have that data, but as we look at this issue, how are those yellow flashing lights working, not working? Have there been fatalities or crashes, vehicle or otherwise, fatalities as a measure of how they're working? And then, like Member Judith Gabriel says, it sounds like it's an opportunity, an imperative about public education around the flashing yellow lights. And I never saw any announcement or PSA or anything that maybe addressed that. So that seems to be something not that hard to do. **Speaker:** And I couldn't tell you how that got rolled out or why or what the data behind it was for them to be able to do that. That would be something in the traffic engineering division that they can answer, I'm sure. But like I said, they have come out when we've had issues, and they've done their own kind of surveys on those issues, and they were able to make those determinations on changing the way lights flash or how long they last or which one goes first, that sort of thing. So I know that they would be the ones that you would probably want to **Speaker:** have maybe at the next meeting to be able to address those questions. **Speaker:** And to know if they've been evaluating that. **Speaker:** Yeah. And if not, he's gone. He's gone. **Speaker:** He's the first one. **Speaker:** So for some context, the traffic engineer was Mike Damlin, and he's the one who led the initiative of retiming the lights that the lieutenant's talking about and helped to install these new yellow flashing lights, but unfortunately, he's not here. So I don't know where we would get any of the institutional memory that's still with us. He presented the flashing yellow lights. I think he did two presentations, and I believe we have the PowerPoint, right? But I think Member Gary's question was more so around public notification, not just to the committees or governing body, etc. What information was given to the public in regards to how to utilize this new mechanism, this new traffic tool? Am I understanding that correct? **Speaker:** Chair Garcia, yes, that is true. And when you say it was presented, was it presented to City Council and other committees? **Speaker:** Back two times. **Speaker:** I wasn't on yet. Okay. **Speaker:** A public meeting was held before they rolled out that program, and yeah, he's the first one who left the city. It might be time to do that again. Make the rounds, put it on the city's website. A suggestion. And then one last thing with all the red light cameras. What is the status of that city? Do we have any? Are they planned? **Speaker:** We don't have any. And I couldn't give you factual information because I'm not a part of that side of it. I believe that's Deputy Chief Memb's side of the house in terms of dealing with that because of our money. So I couldn't give you any factual information on what is coming up, where they're at, that sort of thing. I know that we've been trying to work to get them back, but I'm not sure where they're at with that project. **Speaker:** I can give an update in regards to at least monetary allocation. So the city is currently working to implement speed cameras and noise cameras. There is evidence that shows that red light cameras actually cause more accidents than they reduce because folks then slam their brakes, and it causes rear-end accidents. So I think that's the big conversation: does it lead to more safety measures, or does it lead to more dangerous measures? And you see more municipalities actually not using red light cameras. And so I think that's a conversation that's currently underway. We, as a city, have not made a decision on that as of yet. So, **Speaker:** that begs the question for me: how do they work if people can see them at the intersections? **Speaker:** Oh yeah, and you have to have notification of them as well. And so, I don't believe Santa Fe has ever had red light cameras, but Albuquerque used to have them, and their notification to the public around not only besides signage, but there was, whether it was the road was graded to notify you, or it had like a rumble strip type of deal to let you know this is an intersection where there's a red light camera. And if you go, in Albuquerque, some of that infrastructure is still in place that on the roadway, red light cameras are no longer there. But yeah, and so I think that's a question the governing body can have with PD, with the public, in regards to is that technology that we as a community want to bring back? **Speaker:** Sounds like it just has rumble strips that are running red lights, not the cameras. **Speaker:** Rumble structure. **Speaker:** It's designed, I guess it's **Speaker:** The noise that comes from them has been proven to, you will have opposition from community members because the rumble strips create a quality of life issue. And so that's where we've had rumble strip conversations on many, I think even in this committee, we've talked about rumble strips on bike paths. Right. And so how do we ensure there's safe measures, but technology such as that sometimes is a little more problematic. So, **Speaker:** Thank you, and thank you very much. Hope we have this dialogue continuing. **Speaker:** Member Schiff Miller, how would we go about getting data and actually getting the reports for accidents or crashes when cars hit bicyclists, even sublethal ones? **Speaker:** So we have two people in our department that do all of our, they're basically like crime analysts. They can look up by specific data if it's available, exactly what you're asking for. I would think, I know a lot of these emails that I've seen in terms of data for different things like citations or certain things like that usually come from Deputy Chief Grundler. So I'm not sure if somebody from the governing body is contacting him and asking for these statistics. The reporting stuff goes through our records division and the Santa Fe Next Request, like the IRA side of the city. I know that that's usually how we recommend people go about obtaining reports. I'm not sure of the process with the committees and the governing body on how that works because I've never had hands in that side of it. So I'm not too sure how I would go about obtaining reports. But I'm sure if somebody requested those statistics from the Chief's office, they would definitely get in contact with us and our crime analysts to be able to try and provide what we have here. **Speaker:** Very good. Well, and on that note, given that the ad hoc committee might need this data, feel free to connect with me, and we can make the appropriate requests as long as they're not egregious. And I think that's where I can work, but I don't think that would be egregious in the sense, but it's the information the committee is looking to develop the white paper. Okay, happy to accommodate that, and we can bring that to the entire committee, but I think it right now we'd live with the ad hoc, they're the ones who are going to work on the white paper. But I mean, I can also see how it could be helpful for promotion and education committee as well. So I think that's, we can figure it out. Any other questions or comments? **Speaker:** Quick comment relating to your question, Gary. It looks like they're available online. You can go directly to them. If it's a crash report, is that what we're looking for? **Speaker:** You can actually, any public record report that we provide, you have the ability to go to that Santa Fe Next Request. Yeah. **Speaker:** And request it. And regardless of whether it's a crash, as long as it's public record, even arrest reports are available for the public to request. They might be redacted because that again goes through our IRA division. So there's going to be probably some of that information that is redacted out of those reports. They are available if they are public records. Okay. Just to follow with that, the crash report would have the survey data if they came out and surveyed the crash and had a sketch, what the responding officer's assessment was, and the public record of interviewing witnesses. That'll all be in that report. Anything that would be considered public record for that crash report, which is usually the narrative, diagram, that sort of thing. If it's a fatality where somebody was charged, I'm not sure if that in itself, other than the actual charging documents, being public record. But people every day, we recommend people every day to go to that next request when they want a copy of their crash report and that sort of thing. And they would get a redacted version, which means they redact all sensitive information, people's dates of birth or addresses, that sort of thing, social security numbers, and they usually get a full copy of crash recordings. Okay, thank you. Member Schiff Miller: I've actually used that system. I pulled Steven Ballinger's report and I pulled the report of another crash that I was familiar with between two cars because I wanted to compare how the drivers were treated. But what I discovered in doing that is you need to have a date or a name or some sort of information to pull the report. I can't just go and say, "Give me all the reports for bike crashes." So that's really what I'm wanting to be able to do is I'd like, is there a database that would list the crashes by vehicle and you could just pull all those that involve bicycles? Yes, we would be able to get those statistics. And again, that would be a different method of obtaining those because that goes through our crime analysts and not through X request. They can probably provide you the statistics and not necessarily the actual reports. Could they provide me the incident numbers? Then I could request the report. Exactly. Exactly. Right. Thank you. Okay. I just want to note that it's five minutes till we got a break. I'm not trying to wrap up the conversation. Just want to note it. Any other questions for the Lieutenant? Member Pilchure: This isn't a question. I just want to encourage the members of the committee to read some of the written communication we got from Mr. Spencer, who I think he's had to leave us, but I think he brought up a good point that so much of what we're talking about is due to the basic physical infrastructure in the city, that we have very wide streets, very high speed limits, and it makes it difficult to manage and avoid things when you have that type of infrastructure to deal with. So that's part of the big picture I think we need to keep in mind. Thank you, Member Pilchure. Sure. Member Bordary and then Member Gable. Thank you, Chair. Real quick, and I don't mean to put the MO on the spot, but I'm curious if you all have any data or studies about what we're talking about up here? Do you somehow monitor this kind of data and have any kind of a statistical database? If you would, just for the folks on YouTube, we can hear you, but folks online can. Yes, we do. The crash records that we have are slightly different than what the officers have available. Ours are, they send them to the NMDOT, who works with UNM, who does a lot of processing. And then we just get basically like Excel and TPS. So it's a lot less information, but we have all of that data from 2010 to 2023. It's about a two-year lag. The 2024 data should be available within the next couple of months, and we can pull out bicycle crashes, and I have done that before and looked at actors involved, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Sure. Absolutely. Member Gabriel: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just one quick comment that we know that higher speeds cause more damage to individuals, and that I would like the issue of speed to be visited as part of this white paper, since it is known that when you slow down the traffic, the damage is much less, and it makes it a lot safer for pedestrians and bicyclists. So I know that sounds like a pretty big request, but that we definitely consider the issue of speed and consider lowering the speed on some of our roads and streets. Thank you. Thank you, Member Gabriel. Any other comments and questions from the committee members? Seeing none, thank you, Lieutenant, for joining us tonight. And if possible, I don't know if you caught wind by some of the appointments made. So the committee is forming an ad hoc committee so we can develop a white paper to figure out how we can provide some recommendations on providing for a safer community and especially in these instances that, you know, the unfortunate situation of Mr. Bellinger. And if the committee were to reach out to you, would that be okay? Just the ad hoc committee to just lean on your expertise a little more. Yes. Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Sure. Sure. And to support you, how can we support you? Right. Okay. Thank you, Lieutenant. Thank you for keeping Santa Fe safe. Have a good night. Let's move on to, we've got one minute. And if I don't want to rush folks, if we need, it takes five minutes, that's fine. We'll go and move on to item eight, subcommittee communications, policy, planning, and law. Member Pilchure. Our committee is working on updating our parts of the strategic plan, and we'll keep plugging away with that. Hopefully, maybe it'll be time next month or in December to begin discussion of those. Okay. Promotion, education, and communication subcommittee, Member Gabriel. Just one thing, we have a new community member on our promotion, education, communications committee who's in the audience tonight. Chandler, and I forgot your last name. I'm so sorry. Chandler Moore will be joining us. And Chandler is going to be staffing a table at a city-sponsored Halloween event on Halloween. So we will have a presence there. And thank you, Chandler. Awesome. I look forward to seeing you there, Chandler. I might be in costume. So, next up is technical review. Member Schiff Miller. Thank you, Chair Garcia. I'm continuing to go to the Henry Lynch Road meetings. At the last one, I asked to ensure that there would be ramps from the bike lanes so people who prefer to go through the roundabout in the road as opposed to on the sidewalk can do that. I also asked for rollover curbs so people can more easily get off the bike lane to make a left turn. The other thing is we're going to, they're going to start having meetings again on the Asakia trail extension, and I will be attending those meetings. And one other thing, it's come to my attention and some other members of the technical review subcommittee. There was recently, it's ongoing right now, a realignment of the portion of the Asakia trail. I don't believe we were ever notified of it or ever had an opportunity to review it. And in looking at it, because I ride by it all the time, it's a terrible alignment. It has three 90-degree turns in a very short distance. And had we been able to review it, we could have suggested something better. And I'm a little perturbed that it was off the radar screen. It seems to have just gotten done without ever notifying us. It's a county project. It's in the city. Oh, see. All right. Thank you. Okay. Next up is matters from staff, Miss Glorio Sumas. BPA will have a table at the Hen Henov Hob from 4:00 to 7:30 p.m. for Halloween, Halloween event. Anyone who is a member of PayPac or someone would like to volunteer, you're welcome to volunteer that day. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Miss Clario. Matters from the committee. I'm just going to go left to right. Any matters from the committee? None. Okay. Matters from the chair. I have none. Our next meeting is November 13th, 2025. With that, we are adjourned.